Is the nation of Israel unique, unlike any other nation in the world? Are the Old Testament promises to Israel still in force, or are they null and void? According to the Bible, what does Israel’s future look like? Should Christians have a special affection for the Jews? All of these questions and more will be addressed in today’s With All Wisdom podcast.
Transcript
Derek: Is the nation of Israel unique, unlike any other nation in the world? Are the Old Testament promises to Israel still in force, or are they null and void? According to the Bible, what does Israel’s future look like? Should Christians have a special affection for the Jews? All of these questions and more will be addressed in today’s With All Wisdom podcast. Welcome back to the With All Wisdom podcast where we are applying biblical truth to everyday life. My name is Derek Brown and I am pastor and elder at Creekside Bible Church in Cupertino, California and academic dean at the Cornerstone Bible College and Seminary in Vallejo, California. And I am here today with Cliff McManis, pastor teacher at Creekside Bible Church and professor of theology at the Cornerstone Bible College and Seminary. And today our topic is the nation of Israel and specifically Cliff’s new book published by With All Wisdom Publications entitled, What the Bible Says About Israel, Past, Present and Future, which you can find at WithAllWisdom.org right there on the front page. Just scroll down a little bit and you’ll see it on the right just under our trending articles section. You can click on it and it’ll take you straight to Amazon if you are interested in purchasing it. Or you can hover over the menu tab at the top of the website where it says Our Books and then select the Equip series and you’ll be able to find the book there. And like I said, both places you’ll be able to click on the book and be taken to Amazon if you’re interested in purchasing it. And with that, I want to hand it over to Cliff because he is going to share with us a few things out of his book, also a few other items related to Israel that are on his heart. So I want to just ask you this, Cliff, tell us about the book specifically. Why did you write it and how long did it take?
Cliff: Well, thanks, Derek, and it is a privilege to do so. So this new book came out in December 2020, long anticipated. Looking forward to it for a lot of reasons. And you, Derek, know a lot about this book because you actually helped publish it, which I really appreciate.
Derek: My pleasure.
Cliff: And I consider it a significant book for a lot of reasons which I want to share. First one is you ask, why did I write the book? That’s a great question because we have limited time. And as you know, as an author, especially on technical matters, biblical theology, they are grueling, they are time consuming, they require a lot of research, it doesn’t happen overnight. I remember one of my mentors, Dr. Robert L. Thomas at Master Seminary, said that writing these kind of technical theological books for him was the closest thing to being in labor that a man could experience. So I don’t know about that. But anyway, so you know, they are arduous, they take time, and that was true with this book. And the reason I wrote it was probably the main one or the catalyst was over the course of years and maybe even more than a decade of being where we are located here in Northern California, the Silicon Valley, very secular. Our church is in proximity to several prominent schools, colleges, universities, such as Stanford University, Santa Clara University, which is Catholic, but it’s still very secular. And then there are others surrounding us, San Jose State University, and then we also have an influx of many students from UCLA, etc., etc., and universities all over. But my interactions with a lot of these young people over the course of 10 plus years at our church, the issue of Israel has come up frequently, and usually in the context of the debate of the current Palestinian-Israeli struggle over in the Middle East. And my discussions with these young people, they’re confused about it, and they just ask legitimate questions about it. So I had a couple of our young college students pointedly asking me those very questions, and that kept happening repeatedly, and I thought, you know what, I think it’d be good to go back to the basics. What does the Bible say about Israel? For everybody. And so what I did is I was going to preach one sermon, this was probably, I don’t know, close to five years ago, just what the Bible says about Israel, and I had about 17 points in my outline, and I didn’t cover all 17, and 50 minutes was not enough. So it actually turned into a four sermon series, and it was well received, and it spawned even more questions, and then there were people saying, you should put this in book format. You may even have been one of those people who told me to do that, to consider that. And so we did.
So that’s when the process began, probably about five years ago, and we thought it would just minister immediately to our people, answer questions, give them a big survey picture of the history of Israel and how to think about Israel currently in light of the controversy in the Middle East, and also the future of Israel, do they have one? So why I wrote it was to minister first and foremost to our saints, our members at our church. And then I thought there was a wider audience out there, too, of the Church Universal. So that was the main catalyst, too. I’m glad we did it. And then your second question was, how long did it take? The actual writing and research process for the book specifically, probably close to two years, actually. It took way longer than I thought. It was a monumental undertaking because this issue is so complex in so many different ways. So the writing process, close to two years, and the editing and publishing and all those things. But the research, ultimately, probably, I’d say for 30 years or as long as I’ve been a Christian, because if you’re a student of the Bible, a teacher of the Bible, like you and me, then your nose is always in the Bible, and the Bible is all about Israel. We’ve been studying Israel for decades. So this was a culmination of years and even decades of studying. So that’s how it came to be.
Derek: So you mentioned a little bit, but can you explain a little more who the target audience would be, or the intended target audience for this book?
Cliff: Yeah. So why I wrote the book was more narrow and specific, but the target audience, as I actually got into the task of writing it, I thought, you know, there are so many questions surrounding Israel, historically, theologically, currently, politically, that not just Christians are interested in debate and argue about, but also unbelievers. Everybody has an opinion about Israel.
Derek: Right.
Cliff: And a lot politically was going on while I was writing this book here in America and around the world about Israel. So I thought, you know what, my audience, I want it to be anybody, doesn’t matter, if they’re a Christian, not a Christian, if they’re religious, not religious, pro-Israel, anti-Israel. And I want it to be readable, simple, so that you just pick it up, even if they’re not convinced by my arguments.
Derek: Right.
Cliff: I was hoping that they would be informed on some of the basics that you can’t argue with in terms of truths about the context of the Bible, it’s not Israel. And also just maybe pose some questions they’ll least be willing to consider or pursue further if they didn’t agree. So my target audience was anybody who’s willing to read it. And it’s not difficult. I tried to write it in a readable kind of way. It’s not a long book. And so already, since the book has been published, I have been actually giving it to people in our church, other believers, but also unbelievers, people that I know that just recently, some guy, he’s not religious, he has no profession of allegiance to any religion, agnostic maybe he would call himself. And he was very interested in the title. So he’s going to put it by his coffee table and maybe peruse through it. So it’ll be interesting to see what he thinks. So hopefully it’s a book that anybody can read.
Derek: So as a writer, we are always thinking as writers, we are always thinking about making a genuine contribution. You know, we don’t want to just add to the stack of books that are out there since there are so many, so many people publishing and writing and so on. And so we want to make a legitimate contribution. There are lots of books about Israel, it seems. So why another one? Why did you feel compelled to add to this growing stack of books about Israel? What’s unique about this particular book?
Cliff: Yeah, that’s a key question because when I had the opportunity to write my first book back in 2006, I was in dialogue with a publisher that was interested. That was their first question to me.
Derek: Right.
Cliff: We’ll entertain your manuscript. What’s the topic? And they said, there’s a gazillion books on this topic. Why is your book so needed? And he explained that to me. If I’m going to publish a book, it has to fill a void that exists out there somewhere. What’s the need? That was really helpful for me. So ever since then, any book that I’ve pursued, I mean, like you and I have talked about, oh, we should write a book about this and this. I mean, the list is endless. But reality is, no, you got to pick something that actually meets a need, fills a void, makes it unique. So that was true about Israel, and you’re right. There are just countless books about Israel. They’re not all good, and they’re not all from a biblical point of view. Most of the ones, so as I did research, I thought, okay, what can be my unique contribution about this book on Israel? One thing I noticed, looking at many titles of books that have been written on Israel, it seemed like most of them were in two categories. The History of Israel by Christians and non-Christians alike, or Jewish scholars and rabbis. That’s all they covered was the history of Israel.
One of the best well-known books on the history of Israel was by a rabbi from New York, Solomon Grayzel was his name, wrote it in the 1960s, it’s a mammoth book, 1,200 pages. And it is The History of the Jews, he calls it, and it goes, but it only went from the exile to present-day Israel to 66. So that was pretty comprehensive, but most other books, they only do just the history of Israel, meaning the Old Testament history. And then the other second category of most books that I saw on Israel were recent history of Israel. Modern-day conflict, what happened since 1917, what happened since 1948. I couldn’t really find a book that dealt with Israel on a comprehensive scale. And I’m talking when Israel began and even before the book of Genesis, covered its origins and also the history, that Old Testament history that so many people write about in combination to the history of Israel during the church age, but would also include, is there a future for Israel? And I couldn’t find a book like that, so I thought, oh, this could be my unique contribution. Really a survey of the nation of Israel, not just historically, but from the very beginning, how it began, Old Testament history, recent current events of Israel, and then also projecting in the future. I knew of no book like that, so I thought, oh, this might have potential and gave it a shot. And it wasn’t going to be a long, comprehensive book, but simple, big picture, readable, comprehensive, yet concise. And that’s what I think we achieved. As a matter of fact, I gave it, several people review it and looked at it, but Dr. Tom Halstead at the…
Derek: Yeah. I was going to ask you about him.
Cliff: Yeah. So I’ll save that for when you get a question about him.
Derek: So anyway… Well, I was going to ask, because I remember you saying that Dr. Halstead had basically said that once he read the manuscript, he’s like, I’ve never read a book like this.
Cliff: Yeah, it surprised me. It was back in August, a few months ago, and the book hadn’t been published yet. And I asked him to review. He’s a mentor of mine and has been for 30 years. He’s the chairman of the biblical studies department at the Master’s University, and he’s been there decades, and he’s taught Old Testament, he’s taught the Bible, he’s a scholar, and I thought, wow, he taught me Old Testament survey 30 years ago, I’d like him to review the manuscript. So he did. And he sent an email back, he said, oh, I love the book. And then I saw him two weeks later in person, and the first thing he said was, wow, Cliff, I loved your book. And he said, I couldn’t put it down once I started reading, I read it in two days. And then I said, really? And he said, yeah, I’ve never read a book like it. So then I asked him, well, what do you mean by that? And he said, well, and it had to do with this comprehensive nature, I’ve just never read a book about Israel that started in the beginning and projected all the way into the future. So that was confirmation that, oh, maybe we got something here.
Derek: Yeah. And it is concise. I mean, it’s, what’s the final page count? I should know this, but-
Cliff: 50,000, something? 55,000?
Derek: Yeah. 50,000 word count, and then the page count is right around 200 or just-
Cliff: Less than 200.
Derek: Less than 200. So in terms of endorsements, so you have, here’s an important thing. On this book, you have a number of endorsements. You’ve written several books, many of which have been with All Wisdom Publications, and a number of the smaller books that we’ve published through our Big Truth Little Book line, they don’t have endorsements, but this particular book has several endorsements. Why so many endorsements, and are there any that you can kind of point out or want to talk about a little bit about the people you had endorse the book?
Cliff: Yeah, endorsements and that topic, that’s a tricky issue.
Derek: It is.
Cliff: Because I used to think that endorsements were important or mattered, but then I came to realize there are some pretty lousy books that get endorsements by significant people. That doesn’t mean that all endorsements are illegitimate. So I have a particular nuanced view about endorsements. Many of our books that we’ve produced, like you said, with All Wisdom Publications, don’t necessarily have endorsements by those outside of us because we’re not trying to appease the world, because our ministry, first and foremost, is to the saints that are people edifying them, equipping the saints for ministry. But if there’s a broader audience, that would be great, but because there was an intended broader audience to this book, that’s why I thought it would be a good idea to have endorsements. So I prayed about that, thought about it, and thought if I want endorsements, then I better have some that are legitimate, which means legitimate scholars on the issue of Israel, which is a high calling, because I’m not an expert on Israel. But there are definitely some out there that lead the pack and are high-profile, well-known, highly respected, and have been experts on Israel for decades. So I literally just started thinking of names, and I wrote a little short list of who would I consider are the most respected, bona fide, legit, evangelical experts on Israel alive today on planet Earth. And I came up with a short list of about five men, and I emailed every one of them. William Barrick, for example, Old Testament professor emeritus of the Master’s Seminary, who’s still probably in his early 80s and still working on Old Testament commentaries as an editor and still going to Israel and still very active. So he’s top-notch. Well, I emailed him and asked him if he’d be willing to look at a manuscript of a book I wrote on Israel, and he said yes. And he looked at it and read it within a week and sent me back a very encouraging, positive endorsement for the book. And he said, this is fantastic, Cliff. This deserves, this needs a wide reading audience. So that was a tremendous blessing, totally unexpected. Michael Grisanti, who is, Grisanti is the, I think, chairman of the Old Testament currently at the Master’s Seminary, another Old Testament scholar, leads trips to Israel and an expert, I think, in many issues related to Israel. He did the same thing, quick response, I emailed him out of the blue, and he read the manuscript and wrote an endorsement for it.
And then two others that I thought would never respond, because I don’t know them personally, is J. Randall Price, who’s at Liberty University as a research professor there, and definitely one of, I think, Christian leaders, experts on Israel today. He’s written dozens of books on Israel. He lived in Israel. He has conducted over 100 trips to Israel. He’s an archaeologist in Israel. He was the executive director of an archaeological dig in Qumran for 10 years, from 2002 to 2012. Anything he writes is worth getting your hands on if you’re a Christian. J. Randall Price, so just a preeminent expert on Israel. So I sent him an email out of the blue. I didn’t know him. And he responded promptly, quickly, said, yeah, I’ll look at your manuscript. And he did. He loved it. He wrote an endorsement. So I just couldn’t believe it.
And then the last one was Arnold Fruchtenbaum, which a lot of people haven’t heard of, which surprises me because he’s had a thriving ministry for about 50 years as a Christian. And he’s Jewish, and he knows Hebrew inside and out, backward and forward. He’s written some great things over the years. He has a ministry called, I think it’s Ariel Ministries in San Antonio, Texas. I’ve known about him for 30 years because he came out with this monumental systematic theology just on Israel in the 1980s. It was a summary of his PhD dissertation at New York University that when he finished it, writing it after 13 years of research, it was 2,200 pages. And he submitted that to his PhD committee at New York. And they said, Arnold, this is too long. Painstakingly, he cut it down until he finally got it down to 446 pages. And they made an exception, said, this is still too long, but we’ve been doing this for 10 years. We’ll let you do it. So it’s a tome. And then he expanded that into the systematic theology. So that’s his marquee work, and he’s an expert on Israel. So I emailed him out of the blue, didn’t know him, and he responded the same way immediately back. And I’m thinking, wow, God, you’re paving the way here. Four for four, five for five. And they all wrote back, and they all ended up as endorsements in the book. And to me, I thought this was significant for many reasons because of that wide reading audience that we wanted to get, but also on such a controversial topic. That was really important. Who cares what McManis says about Israel? But when they see, wow, here’s a few experts on Israel, they have something to say. That made a difference.
Derek: Yeah, that’s very encouraging. Okay, let’s start talking specifically about the contents of the book. If you go over the table of contents, this is a, and you’ve already mentioned this, this is a true overview or survey from beginning to end, past, present, and future, specifically about Israel. Why don’t you help our listening audience get some main points and basic highlights of the book? That you want the readers to come away with.
Cliff: Yeah, if I, one of the goals would be, okay, here’s this short book on Israel and hopefully, especially if you’re a Christian, you’re a believer at our church where I’m your shepherd and pastor, or you’re just a fellow believer, I would hope that when you walk away, some basic myths are dispelled that maybe you had, that you were fed by the world or wherever it came from, your secular college education. And also that you walk away with some fundamental truths that you should know anyway, because you’re a Christian, and these truths are foundational, fundamental in the Bible. So, I just jotted some down, things that I, main points I want believers to walk away from after reading the book. Number one, I want every Christian to understand or realize the whole Bible is about Israel, if you think about it. I don’t think we stop and pause about it, but it is, literally. It is, literally, from beginning to end, from Genesis to Revelation. As a matter of fact, all 66 books of the Bible, the setting of those books is the nation of Israel, or the people of the Jews, and you can’t escape it. So, I think all Christians are obligated. So, hopefully, you walk away realizing, wow, that’s right, I love the Bible, I’m a Christian, and the whole Bible is about Israel, so I should have a position on Israel. That would be leading to the second point, overlapping point number two. I want every Christian to walk away thinking that there’s no excuse for any Christian to be ignorant about Israel. You should have a position on Israel. We have position papers on certain theological issues or political issues.
Derek: Right.
Cliff: What’s your position on this or that? Some are important, some are secondary and really aren’t that important, but what’s your position? Every Christian should have a position on Israel, because it’s in the Bible, and it’s clear. So, that’s one of my goals. Okay, Christian, here’s what God said. Your position should be according to the Bible. A third thing I want readers to walk away from and understand is that Israel had a special and unique beginning as a nation. That takes us to Genesis 12, which I want to read in just a second. And today they say we have about 194 or 195 nations on planet Earth. The United States is one of those nations. But when you start thinking about other nations, especially long-standing nations like China or India, do they have a unique and special origin, those nations of the world, in terms of by God? I would say no, not like Israel.
Derek: Right.
Cliff: Israel had a very special and unique beginning as a nation. Some of the reasons I say that is if I were to ask you, okay, India has been around for quite some time. When did it start? Can you give me a date? A year. I can’t answer that question.
Derek: I can’t either. I didn’t know if it was a trick question or not, but I couldn’t give you an answer.
Cliff: And then who started it? Who was the first guy? Who was the first Indian? I don’t know the answer.
Derek: Neither do I.
Cliff: I can’t answer those questions about virtually any country I can come. The closest I can come is the United States, because we know some of the history, but there were people already living here before it was constituted as the United States, so that doesn’t count. Not so with Israel. It had a very special, unique, clear beginning. The Bible tells us that in Genesis. So we know uniquely when Israel started, about 2000 BC. We know with whom it began, to the man, his name was Abraham, first Abram and then Abraham. We know who started it. That was God, also known as Yahweh. We know why the nation of Israel started, because God had a very specific purpose for that nation, and he still does. There is not another nation on planet Earth today that has a unique divine purpose for its existence, practically speaking. But that is the case with Israel. God created it with a purpose. One of those was that you are commanded to be a blessing to the world. That was one of their main purposes. What’s our purpose as the United States? What’s our divine purpose? We don’t have one. God hasn’t commissioned us with one.
Derek: Now, that point itself is controversial, but not everybody holds that view, but I agree.
Cliff: You’re right. I can think of a church in Florida. For decades where the pastor thought what that statement I just said would not be true. America is God’s new elect. Those are just some unique features about Israel’s origin from the book. You’ll see that very clearly. Another thing I want them to walk away with, and this is where I want to just read a passage, Genesis chapter 12. I’ll read that, and the point is I want every Christian walking away understanding that
Israel began with the Abrahamic covenant, Genesis chapter 12. So this is about 2000 BC, and God, the creator of the universe, up to the time of Abraham, there were no nations, and God had just recently created the nations of the world after the flood in the days of Noah, and among all the nations that he created, Israel would be one of those. He calls this man named Abram out of his homeland of Ur of the Chaldees, which is over by Iraq, about 500 miles away probably from Israel, and that’s where Abram lives. For 75 years, he was a pagan. He didn’t know Yahweh personally, and God, in his grace, visited Abram and called him out and said, go to the land that I will show you. He didn’t tell him much more than that, but he said, leave your family behind and go to the land which I will show you. So that begins the unique relationship God had with this man named Abraham that he would turn into the nation of Israel, and Genesis 12 is the Abrahamic covenant. And in my opinion, along with a lot of other Bible teachers, the Abrahamic covenant that is introduced in Genesis chapter 12 is really a pivotal chapter in the book of Genesis. Some would say it’s the most significant chapter in Genesis. It’s a turning point because the rest of the book is a commentary on the Abrahamic covenant introduced in Genesis 12. That’s how far-reaching and astounding the promises are in this covenant that God made to Abraham. So here’s what God said. The Lord Yahweh appeared to Abram, the pagan, the idol worshiper, the Bible says in another book. He said, go forth from your country and from your relatives and from your father’s house to the land which I will show you. Again, about 500 miles away, 200 BC. And I will make you, here’s the promise, and I will make you a great nation.
There it is. That nation would become Israel. Another promise, I will bless you. And I will make your name great. So there’s three very specific blessings. Then he goes on, and so you shall be a blessing. In the Hebrew, that’s actually an imperative. It’s a command. In light of this, you must be a blessing to the world. Part of that blessing is in verse 3. God says to Abram, I will bless those who bless you. And the one who curses you, I will curse. So God’s going to make this special, precious nation. They will be called Israel. They came from the loins of Abraham. They will be protected in a unique way by God. And the enemies who attack Israel will have to contend with God the Creator. That’s not true of any other nation that I know of. There’s no promise like that in the Bible.
Derek: Yeah, that divine protection is remarkable.
Cliff: And then at the end of verse 3, and the one who curses you, I will curse. And in you, Abraham, and coming from your loins, all the families of the earth will be blessed. So God promises immediate blessing to Abraham, to his immediate descendants, which would be the nation of Israel. But then that blessing from God extends beyond Abraham, beyond Israel, really to the ends of the earth, which the New Testament would call the Gentiles. And the way that God would bless all the families of the earth would be from one man who would come from the loins of Abraham as a Jew, Israelite, and his name is Jesus, Jesus the Messiah. Jesus is the ultimate fulfillment of that prophecy in Revelation 12:3. And that is exactly why Jesus was born and came. He came in fulfillment of the Abrahamic covenant. One of the reasons he came was to provide salvation for the world, including all the families of the earth, which would mean Gentiles, not just Jews. And we see the book of Galatians and other places saying that’s exactly what Jesus did. Galatians, Paul says that this is the gospel. He calls this passage the gospel. It’s good news.
Derek: I was just reading that the other day, and we’re going through that with our young professionals. And that’s a remarkable statement, that this is, that’s what Paul says, this is the gospel. That he would bless all the nations through Abraham.
Cliff: Yes. So if you’re listening out there, Christian, you’re not familiar with Genesis 12, you need to get familiar with it as the Abrahamic covenant. And like I said, it’s a pivotal chapter in Genesis. And it’s foundational to the rest of the Old Testament, really, and even the New Testament. So the whole Bible is a commentary in many respects of Genesis chapter 12, the Abrahamic covenant, which leads me to another point that I want believers to walk away with thinking is that the specifics of the Abrahamic covenant. So God introduces the Abrahamic covenant here in Genesis 12, but then he begins to ratify it in a couple different times in Abraham’s life. So he introduces the covenant and introduces the promises and the blessings. And part of the blessing that I didn’t read that would go along with this covenant is that God promised in Genesis 12 verse 7, he said, God said to Abraham, or to Abram, to your descendants, I will give this land, the land of Canaan, the promised land. So that’s inherently a part of the Abrahamic covenant, that God would give the land to Abraham’s descendants, which would be Israel. So that plays directly into, I think, the modern day controversy over the Palestinian-Israeli dispute about the land, whose land is it over there in the Middle East. And I think it’s clear in Scripture, God gave this land to Israel, his people. And then regarding this covenant, the Abrahamic covenant, he introduces the covenant, and then in chapter 15, he gives more promises about the covenant, and specifically, he reiterates his promise about the land. So in Genesis 15, listen to the promise that God made to Abraham. When God initiated the promise in Genesis 12, Abraham was 75 years old. Now, according to Genesis 15, 11 years have transpired, and nothing has really happened. So Abraham was like, well, wow, when is this going to be fulfilled? If I’m going to have a nation, then I’ve got to have some kids, and my wife is old, and we don’t have any kids. So Abraham, he’s getting frustrated. So God comes to him in grace, gives him more revelation, and God says to Abraham, Genesis 15:7, I am the Lord who brought you out of Ur of the Chaldeans to give you this land to possess. So he reiterates the promise.
And then in verse 18 of chapter 15, God gets real specific. On that day, the Lord made a covenant with Abram. So the covenant wasn’t made in Genesis 12, it was introduced in Genesis 12, but here it is formally made. And God even gives the dimensions of the land he’s going to give them to your descendants, the nation of Israel, Abraham. I have given this land. It’s a done deal. And the dimensions are from the river of Egypt. Some think that’s the Nile, others think it’s a wadi that’s a little closer to Israel. As far as the great river, the river, that’s a big swath of land over there that God promised to give Israel. And if you read your Old Testament, never did Israel actually inherit all of that land. So that’s why Bible teachers such as myself think, well, God’s going to fulfill this promise. He’s going to do it literally. It hasn’t happened yet to this degree and will be fulfilled in the future. But again, the land is at the heart of this promise. And then finally, in Genesis 17, a few years more go by, he was 86, now he’s 99. And God finalizes the covenant, gives the sign of the covenant, which is circumcision, and God reiterates the promise of the covenant. And in Genesis 17, he says, I will establish my covenant between me and you, Abraham, and your descendants after you, the nation of Israel, throughout your generations. Get this for an everlasting covenant, or literally, this is an eternal covenant, an eternal covenant. So it’s not temporary. Verse 8 says, I will give to you and to your descendants after you the land of your sojournings, all the land of Canaan. Get this for an everlasting possession, which I take to mean an eternal possession. And that was God’s promise. And he’s never revoked on that. As a matter of fact, when God makes the covenant in Genesis 15, he ratifies the covenant. And the covenant is a unilateral covenant, meaning God is the one who initiated it. Abraham didn’t initiate to this thing. It was unilateral. God initiated it. It’s not a handshake between two equal parties. It’s the creator who initiated it. So it’s unilateral and also it’s unconditional. Because to validate the covenant, God made an oath not with Abraham, God made an oath with himself. God swore unto himself. Therefore, the covenant is unilateral and unconditional. In other words, because it’s unconditional, this covenant, which is full of promises and commitments on God’s part, Abraham or the Israelites could not invalidate the covenant out of disobedience. It was not contingent upon them doing good.
Derek: Right.
Cliff: That’s what it means that it’s unconditional. In other words, the promises that God made through this covenant were guaranteed to happen. One of the most important ones was that the Messiah would come from the loins of Abraham to be a blessing to the rest of the world as the Savior. That is guaranteed. But I also think wrapped up in that is these promises of the land. That is also guaranteed. But if you are a student of the Bible and even paying attention today, modern day, like when I was a new Christian, I’m thinking, wait, I remember reading this for the first time when I was 19 years old thinking, wait a minute, it says eternal promise to Israel and the land was an everlasting possession. Well, that’s not true because in the Old Testament, they get booted out of the land. And for the last 2000 years, Israel hasn’t dominated and ruled in the land. And even today, they’re all over the world. They’re not technically in their land like they were then. It doesn’t seem like Israel is fulfilling this promise with an eternal possession. That’s a question I had as a young Christian. It was legit. I think every Christian has that question. And I think God knows every Christian is going to have that question and that’s why He gave us, I think, Romans 9 through 11 to answer that question. So, I think the promise of the land is still legitimate. It’s still binding. God knew that they would be disobedient and disciplined out of the land. He promised that in Leviticus 26. And then Paul answers that question for us in Romans 9 through 11. What do we do with this idea that Israel doesn’t totally unilaterally possess the land still? And that takes us to the New Testament, which leads me basically to one of my last points here that hopefully people will walk away from the book and that is this basic truth that Israel, the land still belongs to the nation of Israel and I think forever. And probably the best place to go is to Romans 9 through 11.
So, here’s just a couple of highlights that Paul gives us in Romans 11. I’ll just give you the verse reference. Because Paul acknowledges he’s writing to probably predominantly Gentile Christians in Rome and some of them are probably skeptics. Hey, wait a minute. You just talked about election in Romans 8 telling us that no one can separate us from the love of God? Hey, wait a minute, your Old Testament says that God loved Israel and they were His elect and now they’ve been separated. What’s up with that, Paul? And Paul says, yeah, that’s a good question. Israel was elect in the Old Testament. Isaiah 44:1 says Israel is the elect of God. And then Paul says, God has not abandoned His people Israel. They’re still the elect nation of God. And then in chapter 11, here are some of the things he wants us to know as Gentiles. Chapter 11 verse 1, he says, okay, Christian Gentile, God has not rejected Israel. Get that through your head. He has not rejected Israel as a nation. It’s very important. I was at a Bible conference about a year and a half ago. This is pretty typical. And there’s a very well-known, high-profile Bible teacher who I greatly respect, think is a great Bible teacher, Alistair Begg. Doing some good stuff. But in one session, he’s talking on some topic and just out of the blue footnote has nothing to do with his passage. And he goes on this rant and says that Israel’s no different than any other nation today. They are not God’s people. They’re not special. They’re not elect anymore. The land doesn’t belong to them. They don’t have a future with Israel. And he was actually perturbed as he was saying it. I thought, wow, that’s weird. And secondly, that’s wrong. And third, that’s really sad because I like Alistair Begg.
Derek: I do too.
Cliff: Yeah. So I thought, oh boy, I don’t know why he’s saying that because Romans 11 is pretty clear. God has not rejected the nation of Israel present in 11. Paul goes on to say that there is a remnant of Israel even now that has believed. So you can’t say that God’s rejected Israel because, hey, Gentile, reminder, newsflash. If you read the book of Acts, the first five to seven years, the Church of God that had thousands and thousands of people was pretty much 100% all Jewish and all Israelites, all of them. We forget that. Jesus was a Jew. The 12 apostles who founded the church were Israelites. The first church was in Jerusalem and the first believers for five years were nothing but Israelites. So that’s what he means. And Jews are getting saved today in the church. So God hasn’t rejected Israel totally. And then Paul goes on to say that there was a purpose by which Israel stumbled and fell. And that is that God would extend his grace of salvation to the Gentiles. And that’s to our benefit and our blessing. Romans 11:11. So then Paul says in 11:18 of Romans, hey, Gentile, do not be arrogant. Don’t look down your nose judging Israel today. Don’t be arrogant. And then in verse 20 he says, hey, hey, Gentile Christian, don’t be conceited. Don’t be puffed up. Don’t think you’re special. Don’t think you’re more important than unbelieving Jews. Otherwise, God could snuff you out as well.
He literally says that. So that’s a good sobering reminder for us about our attitude towards Israel. And then he says in verse 23 of chapter 11 of Romans, he says, Israel will be grafted in again into God’s blessing and into the root, just as the Gentiles have been grafted in. And he says, what I’m telling you about Israel’s current condition and their future is a mystery. 11: 25. A mystery means new information. God didn’t give all this information about Israel in the Old Testament, but he gave this information about Paul. And the bulk of that information, that’s new information, it’s called a mystery, is that there would be a time of hardening on Israel’s part so that the Gentiles would be blessed. And Paul says two things about that hardening, that unbelief that Israel is in the current state of. He says it’s partial, so it’s not complete, meaning there’s still a remnant of Jews who believe today, so it’s partial. But he also says in verse, after verse 25, he says it’s temporary. So Israel’s unbelief as a nation is partial and it’s temporary. In verse 25 he says, and their hardness will end or go on until the fullness of Gentiles has come in. Well, what does that mean? I think it means God has a plan to save, elect Gentiles, and when God’s done doing that, he’s going to go back to working with the Jews. That’s just a simple way of saying it. So Israel’s hardening is partial and temporary. And then the crescendo, the coup de grace of his argument in chapter 11 verse 26 says this, and then in the future, all Israel will be saved. That is an incredibly controversial phrase.
Derek: It is.
Cliff: A lot of speculation. All Israel will be saved. In context, I just simply think it means its future and certain things have to transpire. The fullness of the Gentiles has to come in. According to the book of Revelation, Zechariah 12-14, I think at the end of the age, just prior and about the time that the Messiah returns the second time, Jesus, all of Israel as a nation corporately will turn to Jesus the Messiah in repentance and be saved. So I think there is a future, definitely, mass scale of salvation of ethnic Israel, and they will be in the land. I believe based on Leviticus 26, Deuteronomy 28 and 29, and other passages, and many other passages, God is going to gather Jews from all over the world into the promised land in the future. One interesting footnote of history that about 1517, the year of Martin Luther’s rise, they say there was about 5,000 Jews in the land of Israel. 5,000 was all. Fast forward to our day in 2020. There are now, I think, nearly 7 million Jews in the land of Israel, and that’s almost 50% of all Jews alive today. That’s pretty amazing. I think based on the Bible, God’s going to take the other 50% and bring them to Israel, that they might be saved. So that’s it, Derek. Oh, and then one last thing is, as they’re walking away from the book on what the Bible says about Israel, I hope that every Christian understands that it’s an important hermeneutical principle that when you’re reading the Bible, especially the New Testament, and you see the word Jew or Israel, you should think ethnic Jew and ethnic Israel. In other words, Gentiles are not spiritual Jews, and the Church is not spiritual Israel. At least as I read it in context, I think we need to keep the face value meaning of those two words.
Derek: Yeah. And another practical takeaway, I think, too, for this book is, and it’s interesting because in my personal experience when I came to Christ, and I don’t know why this was the case, but it seemed almost immediately that there was just a natural affection for the Jews. Even, you know, Israel, unbelieving Jews, you know, I’d see them walking to Sabbath on a Saturday with their little families. This was just down the road here where you drive by on this road, and there’s a synagogue nearby. And I just, my heart longed to see them converted and come to their Messiah. And I think a practical takeaway from this book is, hopefully, to reignite or get people, Christians who currently don’t have an affection like that for the Jews, to have this book kind of reignite that. That they would have a love for the Jews, just a natural love for the Jews. Even Paul is saying we as Christians are rooted in the Jewish faith and that Jesus was a Jew, and God worked with Israel to bring about the blessing of the nations. And so, we need to be humble and humble towards them, and there should just be a natural love for them. So, I’m hoping that’s part of what gets produced out of this book too, Cliff, is that Christians will have a newfound, if not already, a newfound love for Israel and for the Jews.
Cliff: Amen. That prompts a question, Derek. Do you think it’s legit to say that every Christian who truly loves Christ in the Bible should be a person who loves the Jews?
Derek: I think so. I think there’s a direct connection.
Cliff: I think so. I agree with you. As a matter of fact, I’m going to make it explicit of what you just said. Here’s the Apostle Paul reflecting in Romans 9 and 10 on unbelieving Jews. Chapter 9 verse 1. Here’s Paul. I am telling the truth in Christ. I am not lying. My conscience testifies with me in the Holy Spirit that I have great sorrow and unceasing grief in my heart, for I could wish that I myself were accursed, condemned eternally to hell, really is what he means, separated from Christ for the sake of my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh, who are Israelites. Wow. I read this verse to my seminary students yesterday, and I went around and asked every single one of them, okay, guys, let’s make this practical. Who could you say this about? What person here on planet Earth could you legitimately say, I am willing to go to hell eternally forever, God, if you’re willing to save that person? And we all agreed we couldn’t think of anybody because we are so selfish.
Derek: Yeah.
Cliff: And I think Paul was sincere.
Derek: Yeah, exactly. I don’t think that was rhetoric.
Cliff: Yep. He loved the Jews. And then the next chapter, chapter 10 verse 1, his attitude about Jews. Brethren, fellow believers, what do you mean? Every Christian, I want you to know, my heart’s desire and my prayer to God for the unbelieving Jews, or for Israel, is for their salvation. That’s what we should be doing.
Derek: Yep.
Cliff: Praying for the salvation of Jews and the nation of Israel.
Derek: Yep. Are there, we mentioned a couple of practical takeaways, love for Jews, love for Israel. Anything more broadly in terms of thinking our nation has historically been a friend of Israel? Is there anything you want to say about how we should think in regard to how our nation should be in relationship to Israel and what that should look like?
Cliff: Yeah. I think of Genesis 12 that we read where God made that promise to Abraham and he said, you’re going to be my special people, the nation of Israel. And those who bless you, I will bless. And those who curse you, I will curse. So God made a promise that any nation or people that contests or comes against Israel will automatically be God’s enemies. And if you’re a friend of Israel, you’re under a special umbrella of protection. Now, historically, we know that is true in God’s commitment in the Old Testament. The big debate in the Christian world is, is that still true? Can we still claim that promise? So I know many evangelical leaders, Bible teachers, who don’t think we can still claim that promise. I personally think we can. I still think it applies because God hasn’t revoked His promise to Israel, clearly. They are His elect. And Paul said in Romans 11 that the calling of God is irrevocable. They will always be God’s elect. As a matter of fact, in Romans 11, he also says that they were foreknown, or in Romans, that the nation of Israel is foreknown. That’s predestined. That’s an eternal relationship of love. So I was teaching on Islam, a 12-week series on Islam, about 20 years ago. Maybe, no, it was less than that because it was in the year of 9-11, so it was 2001, I guess, 19 years ago. And I made the statement that I think Genesis 12 still applies. And if you’re a friend of Israel, God will bless you. If you’re an enemy of Israel, look out. And I said, thank God for the United States of America where I live because historically, for 200 plus years, we have been a friend to Israel. I said, God forbid the day when the tables turn and we are no longer a friend of Israel. That was in 2001. Little did I know that beginning in, not long after that, where we would have elected politicians to our country who were not just friends of Israel, but outspoken, outright overt anti-Semites, speaking publicly and even promoting legislation that would hurt Israel as a nation. And it’s growing, and it’s growing like crazy. And we have a new administration right now, this year, 2020, that’s coming into leadership in the United States of America. And there are overt, out of the closet anti-Semites who thoroughly hate Israel being put in the highest positions of power here in the United States of America. And I’m just like, wow. So, on a practical level, I would encourage every Christian to have the heart that you did that, boy, when you became a Christian, you were soft towards Israel. After all, your Savior Jesus was a Jew.
Derek: That’s true.
Cliff: Still is.
Derek: That’s true, and he still is.
Cliff: Yeah. So, that should be our heart, and we should not be anti-Semites. And whenever we see anti-Semitism, there should be a red flag raised. We need to be discerning and guard against that.
Derek: Anything else you want to say, add? Any final points you’d want to make?
Cliff: One thought was a unique chapter that I was told from some of the men who reviewed my book, that I thought was vitally important. It is the chapter, because some of them said, I’ve never even read anything like this. Chapter seven, who are the Palestinians? And that’s the longest chapter in the book. It’s the most complex chapter in the book. But today, in light of what’s going on in the world, it’s probably one of the most pertinent chapters in the book. So, I would encourage folks, if they have opportunity, even if you don’t want to read the whole book, the Palestinian issue is one we have to contend with. It’s in our face, and hopefully that chapter is helpful for you to sort through it. Read it slowly, carefully, over and over again.
Derek: Well, that actually brings up a question I want to ask, because I’ve noticed that some folks, some Christians, when you talk to them about Israel, they assume that what they hear on the news about Israel being a perpetrator of many evils against the Palestinian people. They just assume that that is the case. And so, my question for you is, what do you think is the biggest, or what are the biggest misconceptions and wrong views today about Israel? Including misconceptions about the church and Israel’s relationship, biblically. What are the broad-scale biggest misconceptions that people have?
Cliff: Yeah, from the news, the biggest misconception is the land doesn’t belong to Israel. As a matter of fact, they’re imperialist intruders to the land. They have displaced the modern day Palestinians who are indigenous to the land, which is totally not true. There is no such thing as a Palestinian, historically, and that’s what I explain in the book there. So, that’s the biggest misconception that the Israelites are not native to the land and don’t have rights to the land. When in fact, no, according to the Bible, it’s pretty clear. Israel has rights to the land, even to possess the land and own the land, and the reason is because who really owns the land? God. He is the creator, and he says in the Bible, this is my land, I own it, I’m giving it to you, Israel, as a stewardship responsibility. So, that’s at the heart of the biggest debate today, and misconception. Israel doesn’t have rights to the land, they are not indigenous or native to the land. Oh, the second major misconception is that the nation of Israel just began recently in 1948. The nation of Israel began in 1948. I hear that all the time. I heard a very well-known evangelical Bible teacher who’s an expert on Israel, supposedly in prophecy, last week watching a YouTube video, and he said that Israel’s origin is rather recent, beginning in 1948. I thought, oh, that’s terrible. No, Israel’s been around as a nation for 3,000 years in continuity, without missing a step. As a matter of fact, there’s never been a time, since the time of Abraham, where some Israelites or Jews haven’t been in the land. They’ve never been banished 100% from the land. Never. That’s never happened. There’s always been a presence of the Jews in the land for 3,000 years. So, those are the two biggies, I think. Derek, let me ask you.
Derek: Sure.
Cliff: Are there, because you have and have had, at least the seven years you’ve been at our church as one of our shepherds, you had a unique ministry to the Stanford campus. Which primarily is a secular institution.
Derek: Yeah.
Cliff: So, I would imagine that most professors there would be pro-Palestinian, I’m just guessing that would be the case. So, you were working a lot with college students and youth, and currently you still are. So, has this come up as a shepherding issue for you, or do you ever get these questions from the young people?
Derek: Yeah, it’s interesting, because if you were to ask me what the biggest response I get with regard to Israel, it’s usually one of either, just indifference. It’s not important. Maybe that’s wrapped up with some ignorance. Or, like I mentioned to you, it seems that, and this is not broad brush I’m speaking, it didn’t come up terribly often, but when it did, it seemed like these were the categories. Either kind of just indifference, or the assumption that, like you said, Israel is the usurper, they’ve displaced the Palestinian people, and they’re the ones perpetrating all this evil. And so, whenever you read the news that there have been attacks upon Israel from the Palestinians, well, that was obviously deserved and justified and so on. And so, there was those views, and then mixed within that, there were some who had the view that Israel is unique and the apple of God’s eye and his chosen people, and there should be an affection that Christians have for Jews. So, I think there was a spectrum whenever I engaged with people on this issue, and particularly even the students at Stanford. But I think probably it was the case that there just wasn’t a lot of biblical grounding on this topic. It was just either indifference, or the assumption that the media was giving you the right views of who Israel was and what they deserve and so on.
Cliff: Amen.
Derek: So, hence the need for a book like this to fill that gap.
Cliff: Yes. So, my closing exhortation would be to all you fellow believers is you need to have a position that’s biblical, thorough, complete on the nation of Israel. Historically and even about the future and present day. And being rooted and grounded in scripture from Genesis to Revelation will definitely help you do that, and hopefully this book will also help you do that.
Derek: I think so, and I think it will give you, it’ll renew or cultivate a love for Israel and for Jews. And so, that’s a wonderful thing. So, thanks Cliff for all of your work on this book and for joining us today on this conversation. And thank you for listening. We encourage you to check out withallwisdom.org and the many resources that we have there to help you apply biblical truth to your everyday life. You can also find links for Cliff’s new book there at withallwisdom.org. Thanks again for joining us on this podcast, and we’ll see you next time.
