In part 2 of this series, Derek and Cliff continue to discuss how Romans 14 applies to our disagreements over the Covid-19 vaccine.
Transcript
Derek: Welcome to With All Wisdom, where we are applying biblical truth to everyday life. My name is Derek Brown and I am here today with Cliff McManis. We are both pastors and elders at Creekside Bible Church in Cupertino, California and professors at the Cornerstone Bible College and Seminary. And today we want to continue our conversation from last time on masks, vaccines, and COVID-19. But before we get to that topic, I want to direct your attention to WithAllWisdom.org, where you will find a large and growing collection of audio and written resources, all aimed to encourage and strengthen your walk with the Lord Jesus Christ. And now on to our topic. We want to continue our examination of Romans 14 in light of this issue of COVID-19 and vaccine mandates and so on, because we think this text provides the believer the right approach and the biblical principles with which to navigate these issues and any disagreement they may have with fellow believers. Last week we said that there are many things we encounter in our Christian life that are not directly addressed in scripture, and Christians may disagree about these. We call these gray areas or non-essential areas. If you’re a Christian, you will have agreement with other Christians on the issues of who God is, who Christ is, how you’re saved, and so on. These are essential Christian doctrines that are directly addressed in the Bible, but there are plenty of issues that are not essential issues that Christians may disagree over. And Romans 14 gives us very rich detail, several principles on how to handle these non-essential or gray area issues in the body of Christ. So we want to get back to Romans 14, but we also want to address a recent article written by a popular author and pastor about this very issue of vaccines and Christian freedom. So I want to turn it over to you, Cliff, and see what you have to say to start us off.
Cliff: Yeah, thanks, Derek. Well, this is part two, so for our listeners who didn’t hear part one of this, I would encourage you to listen to part one that Derek and I did just recently. That kind of laid the foundation and began the conversation, and we are following up on that. And a couple things have transpired since our first podcast on this topic, and one significant one was for me as a shepherd, I actually had some members come to me, and I know you have as well, Derek, is they come up and say, hey, Pastor Cliff, should I get vaccinated? And to me, I find that a frightening question for a lot of reasons. I’m not in a position actually to answer that for them. That’s actually dangerous for me to do that. So I don’t answer the question for them, but I try to give them biblical principles by which they can answer it themselves. And the reason I come to that conclusion is what we find in Romans 14 that we’re looking at today, because again, as you’ve said, the issue of whether you get vaccinated or not is not a biblical issue, a right and wrong issue, a sin issue, or a moral issue. It’s not explicitly stated in Scripture, and therefore, it’s a nonessential issue or even a preferential matter or a disputable matter. And so that’s what Paul’s talking about in Romans 14. And so you have to use biblical principles to think those difficult matters through. So I’ve had a few people come up and ask me, so, Pastor Cliff, should I get vaccinated? And then I just try to give them principles by which they make that decision themselves. I’ve also had, sadly, even recently, a couple of our members come to me and let me know that they’ve actually lost their job because they didn’t get vaccinated. They even submitted appeals based on certain convictions and religious exemptions and even medical exemptions. It doesn’t matter. They still got laid off. And so we’re hearing about that more and more across the country. This is happening. So this is affecting people’s lives at the deepest level, the very livelihood over a nonessential, preferential, gray area of matter. And so more and more, we need to talk about this and what the Spirit of God has to say in Romans 14 about how to deal with these very complicated issues. So that was one issue that came up, these pastoral issues recently. And then the other one was how you mentioned a popular author since you and I did our podcast. This podcast that he did, it’s actually Pastor John Piper, a man that both of you and I respect and been a faithful pastor for years. But he did do an 18-minute podcast on this issue of vaccinations. And you and I both listened to it and listened to it carefully, took notes and then had some concerns about his conclusions and even his theme. So we wanted to address that as well. We have the highest respect for Pastor John Piper. But on this issue, I think he made some mistakes or missteps or neglected some basic principles on that issue. So I want to talk about that. So I just summarized three mistakes or oversights, I’ll call them, that John Piper made in his 18-minute podcast on vaccinations and just use that as a springboard to go back into Romans 14 to help us think through these issues, because I did have a member just recently ask me what I thought of the John Piper podcast on this issue. So I think that his three oversights that are glaring in his 18-minute podcast. Number one, he never calls getting vaccinations a preferential matter or a gray area. That’s the theme of his podcast. It’s his view on vaccinations, should we get vaccinated or not. And not one time does he call it a gray matter, a disputable matter, or he doesn’t clearly say, okay, people, this is not a clear biblical issue, this is not a moral issue, this isn’t a right or wrong issue, this is not a sin issue. That should have been clearly stated up front from the get-go. And because he didn’t do that, his second glaring oversight is that he doesn’t discuss that issue based on Romans 14, because Romans 14 and Romans 15 actually is the context where we find the principles of dealing with and sorting out through gray area matters. So he doesn’t recognize it as a preferential matter, therefore he doesn’t use Romans 14 in his third oversight on that whole discussion, I think, is that he basically argues that getting a vaccination is actually the biblical, godly, and loving thing to do. And as a result, people listening, even though this is a disputable matter, could, Christians who are sensitive to Scripture and actually have respect for his teaching, could feel a sense of guilt illegitimately, as though, oh, okay, God wants me to get a vaccination, yet this is, they have freedom before Christ not to. So I think we need to provide a counter perspective that I think is more rooted in a balanced view of Romans 14 and Scripture on this matter.
Derek: Yeah, and it’s important to do so because what he has done in this article, in this podcast from my perspective, he has bound the Christian’s conscience. You mentioned that someone might listen to this, they’re sensitive to Scripture, they’re sensitive to John Piper’s teaching because he’s shown himself to be a faithful teacher, biblical teacher, and now they are starting to feel their conscience bound to get vaccinated. And that’s just an important thing. I’ve read other articles from Christian ethicists who argue that loving your neighbor entails getting the vaccine. And they are right, they have the right to make their own argument, but what they don’t think they’re realizing is that they are binding people’s consciences by making those kinds of arguments. And so, in similar thing here in Piper’s podcast, his article, is that he is now binding the conscience, this is now the right thing to do. And unless you have clear biblical warrant to bind the conscience, then you must not bind the conscience. And if you do, that’s actually by definition a kind of legalism.
Cliff: In light of that, what is the warrant to bind the conscience of a Christian? What are things that we can say that, in other words, you know, we’re giving them an imperative, you must obey. What would that be?
Derek: Clear biblical commands.
Cliff: Yeah, exactly.
Derek: Exactly.
Cliff: And that’s not the issue here with whether we should get a vaccination or not. So, let me run through, Derek, last time we covered some of the main truths in verses 1 through 4. So, let me just briefly read Romans 14, if our listeners, if they have their Bible or just want to listen along. Let’s read the whole context. I’ll go through rather quickly just reading verses 1 through up to about 11 or 12, because it does all go together. And then, we’ll just camp out on maybe one or two of the verses, and maybe the first one we camp out on in terms of practical application is verse 5, and Derek, I want to hear some more of your thoughts on that one. We’ll start at verse 1. Starting at verse 1, Paul says, Now accept, or literally welcome, the one who is weak in faith, but not for the purpose of passing judgment on his opinions. One person has faith that he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats vegetables only. The one who eats is not to regard with contempt the one who does not eat, and the one who does not eat is not to judge the one who eats, for God has accepted him. Verse 4, Who are you to judge the servant of one another? To his own master he stands or falls, and he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand. So, in these four verses, just by way of review, Paul’s talking about two camps in the church. Those who are called strong Christians, they understand their biblical freedoms to do things or abstain from doing things. And then, he’s also addressing the other camp, and that’s the weak Christians on a particular where they don’t understand their freedom of Christ yet, and so they have a legalistic approach to a very specific matter. And in our context, we were saying that the strong might be those who don’t want to wear a mask, and the strong might be those who don’t think they need to get a vaccination. The weak would be those who are basically demanding that everybody get vaccinated, even though that is not a command of Scripture. So those are the two camps. And then, Paul, basically God is saying in verse 4, who are you to judge? Stop judging each other, because that’s divisive. The only judge is Jesus. He’s the one that makes the ultimate judgment on gray area matters. So picking up in verse 5, we’re all different, the strong and the weak. One person regards one day above another, and another regards every day alike. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind on these gray area issues. He who observes the day observes it for the Lord. And he who eats, he does so for the Lord, for he gives thanks to God. And he who eats not for the Lord, he does not eat, and he gives thanks to God. For not one of us lives for himself, not one dies for himself. Verse 8, for if we live, we live for the Lord, or if we die, we die for the Lord. Therefore, whether we live or die, we are the Lord’s. The Lord there is referring to Jesus Christ. He is our Savior. He’s our judge. He’s the Lord of the church. He’s the boss. He makes the judgments on gray area matters. We don’t. Verse 9, for to this end Christ died and lived again, in order that he might be the Lord, both of the dead and of the living of all Christians. But you, why do you judge your brother? And that’s an admonition to both camps. You strong Christians, stop judging the weak Christians. You weak Christians, stop judging the other believers. For you again, why do you regard your brother with contempt? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God. God is the ultimate judge on these disputable matters. For it is written, as I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall give praise to God. So then each of us Christians will give an account of himself to God, who is the only judge on these matters. So that’s the full context of what Paul has to say. So Derek, can you share some thoughts on that?
Derek: Yeah. So a really important principle brought out here is found in verse 5. One person esteems one day is better than another, while another esteems all days alike. And here’s the driving principle here. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. So there are issues like the ones we’re talking about that are gray area issues, not essential issues. And whatever your decision is in that gray area matter, because he then goes on to talk about whatever we do, we do it unto the Lord. All Christians are seeking to honor the Lord, the weak and the strong, on a particular issue. But whatever decision you make, you must be convinced in your own mind, and make that decision being convinced. Not being under compulsion, not being fearful of what others might think or say. But as Paul will go on to say later in 14:23, to do it in faith, to be convinced that what you’re doing honors the Lord. And as we are engaging with one another, I trust that you are seeking to honor the Lord in your gray area decisions. You’re fully convinced in your own mind. You have the same respect for me. You are trusting that I’m honoring the Lord in my gray area decisions, and I’m convinced in my own mind about whatever that is. But that’s the call for the Christian, each Christian, is to be fully convinced in their own mind in these particular areas.
Cliff: Yes, and that, I think it’s important to note, just to complement what you’re saying there. I mean, this is amazing freedom that God has given every Christian. And not understanding this principle can literally just rip a church apart with division. And so, this was one of the keys that we hammered home on as elders in our church early on when we had the mask debates. And it was, you know, should we wear masks or not? Is one sinful, is one not sinful? And we landed right here. Each believer had to be convinced in their own mind. And we, as the elders of the church, we accommodated both of those views in those camps. We literally welcomed them, and it says in verse 1. And so, this is a gift from God. It’s a beautiful freedom and liberty that He gives all parties that are involved regarding their gray area issues. Being convinced in your own mind, and it gives them freedom of conscience. They’re allowed to live in accordance with their conviction that they’ve landed on. The weaker brother has the freedom to live out his conviction regarding this issue of, whether it’s food or wearing his mask, being blessed by God. And those who have a different opinion are not allowed to judge or condemn, and it preserves harmony in the church. Again, like you said, it comes down to a very personal, individual decision before the Lord, and that’s your conscience before Christ and the Holy Spirit as you’re led by that. And an important principle here is, when Paul’s talking about the weak in faith, in verse 1, he’s not talking about those who are being sinful. So weakness is not the same as sinfulness, or weakness is not the same as carnality, or immorality. So it’s literally, God is allowing stronger Christians to accommodate the weaker brother with his weak conviction, to keep practicing that in the church. Very important. So, in other words, they’re not inferior from a moral or spiritual point of view. Should the weaker brother on his particular conviction try to make progress in that area so he grows stronger, absolutely. But the interesting thing is, is every single one of us are weak in some specific area. For the guy that we look down our noses at that’s weak with masks, and he’s driven by fear or whatever it is, well, he might be strong in another area. Maybe he’s strong in his view of music, and I might be very legalistic in my job. I believe in hymns only. So we all have our specific areas, so we’ve got to be careful there, and that’s why this principle is so liberating, because it applies to every gray area we’re going to face in the church.
Derek: And I think, if I might say this, I think we saw the fruit of maintaining a Romans 14 perspective in our own church, that accommodating for different convictions, different consciences on these issues allowed for our people to remain together, to not judge one another, and by God’s grace, our churches remain unified through a situation that has actually caused a lot of disunity in a lot of other churches. So I’m grateful for that, but I just attribute it to Romans 14, the Word of God, giving us everything that we need in order to think rightly about these topics.
Cliff: Yes. Well, the first phrase in Romans 14 verse 1 is, now accept one another, or now accept each other. Literally, and it’s a compound word, so it’s emphatic, really welcome each other, embrace one another as brothers and sisters in Christ over these disputable, divisive gray area issues, welcoming and accommodating. We have every single week, as you know, Derek, almost every single week, we have visitors coming to check out our church, new people, and in this day and age, a lot of them, one of the first questions they’re asking is, what are your policies about masks and vaccinations? And do I need to make a reservation and call ahead of time and wear a mask and get vaccinated? And my answer is, well, we welcome anyone who knows Jesus Christ and loves the Lord and wants to worship with the saints, and we don’t have any restrictions. We want to welcome everybody that’s a believer to our fellowship and get a lot of surprises. Like, really? You’re not requiring or demanding vaccination cards of proof that in order for me to even be on your campus? No, not at all. And this is exactly what God wants, is welcoming environment for the body of Christ so that we don’t undermine its unity, because in that first podcast, one of your main principles that we need to keep circling back to is the condition by which we welcome those to be a part of our fellowship for worship. And it was very simple, and it was a belief in the Lord Jesus Christ, basically.
Derek: That’s right. And none of these extra-biblical requirements of certain kinds of masking or vaccines or it could be other things down the road, which is precisely why we’ll probably be coming back to Romans 14 on a regular basis, because these other kinds of things will come up. I’ve noticed, too, that this passage has really afforded me my own clarity of thought on this issue. And as I’ve been asked about it, you know, what about vaccinations? And I say to them, I say, you know what, you are free to get a vaccination, you’re free to not get a vaccination, be convinced in your own mind, and guess what? I’m going to welcome both people. If you believe in the Lord Jesus, I welcome you. And unfortunately, you don’t see that kind of welcoming or clarity when Romans 14 is left out of the conversation. You have, I think, the wrong binding of consciences and almost the kind of shunning of people who disagree rather than saying, okay, Romans 14 tells us we’re probably going to disagree on this issue. Each one is be convinced in their own mind, and we don’t judge one another, and we welcome both sets of people, and it’s just given me great clarity and help navigating this whole issue.
Cliff: Yeah, it’s liberating. This principle is liberating for those who are weak because they’re welcome. It’s liberating for those who are strong in their convictions because they’re welcome. But it’s also liberating for me and you as pastors in the counsel we give. It’s like, this is your decision. You need to be convinced in your own mind in light of these biblical principles, and we are freed up or we’re not responsible. That’s why Pastor Piper’s argument that basically when someone asks the question, so Pastor Piper, should I get vaccinated? It sounds like his answer is, yeah, absolutely. And that’s dangerous because I don’t think that’s right, and I don’t want to bear that responsibility because what if I say that to one of our members, I don’t know their medical history, I don’t know what vaccination they’re using, I don’t know all the variables involved, and say, yeah, absolutely, you should. That’s the loving thing to do. Then they get vaccinated and say they get paralyzed or they die. Some people have died from that.
Derek: That is true.
Cliff: I don’t want that on my head.
Derek: Right.
Cliff: So that’s unnecessary.
Derek: Yeah. And I think what was surprising about this article is that he grounds it in Christian freedom. And it seems that he’s talking to the person who is a fearing man, afraid of being made fun of or looked down upon for getting the vaccination. And interestingly, I’m not having those conversations. Maybe he is, I’m not. What I’m seeing is a lot of pressure to get vaccinated.
Cliff: Exactly.
Derek: And so I’m not exactly sure who he’s talking to. But I was just surprised at the turn he took. He’s talking about Christian freedom. I’m like, that’s right, don’t fear man, don’t fear man. But then the tilt is, it seems, towards getting vaccinated. And I thought that was illegitimate given Romans 14. And like you said, the failure to actually bring us to that text, which should have been the primary text in his article.
Cliff: Yeah. That’s a good point. When Paul’s talking about strong Christians versus weak Christians, who are the ones that are typically driven by fear and emotion? Well, it’s clearly the weak Christians. But that wasn’t what he was arguing.
Derek: Right. So, well, I think this has been another excellent discussion and one that will continue to come back to, I believe, Romans 14, because we will always be dealing with these nitty gritty practical issues. And our call as pastors and as teachers and as shepherds is to help maintain that unity that the Spirit has already created. And we find great help in this passage.
And so I know for myself, I’ve grown a new appreciation for this passage as we’ve walked through these issues. And I just commend Christians and pastors who are listening to go back to this passage, because it is of great help to help you navigate a lot of issues in your congregation and in your life.
Cliff: Amen.
Derek: Well, we thank you for listening in this time, and we look forward to getting back together with you. As you leave us, go ahead and check out withallwisdom.org. We have a lot of resources there, even pertaining to this particular topic of Romans 14. You can go there, go on the search bar, type in Romans 14. You’ll find other resources on this topic. And until next time, we’ll see you later.
