In this second episode of a two-part series, pastors Derek and Cliff answer a few common questions about the current conflict in Israel. You can listen to the first episode here.
Transcript
Derek: Welcome to the With All Wisdom podcast. My name is Derek Brown. I’m here today with Cliff McManis. We are both pastors and elders at Creekside Bible Church in Cupertino, California. And we are professors of theology at the Cornerstone Bible College and Seminary in Vallejo, California. And today we are doing part two of our series on Israel. In light of recent events, of course, in the news—the conflict over in Israel—we want to be talking about that from a biblical and historical perspective. Before we get back to our topic, I want to encourage you to check out withallwisdom.org if you haven’t already, and check out the resources we have there. All of them are rooted in God’s word and they aim to help you grow in your walk with the Lord Jesus. So let’s get back to our topic. Cliff, we covered a lot in that last episode, which was really, really helpful and you took us through the history of this conflict.
You took us through the history of Israel, the history of some important terms like the word Palestine and Palestinian, and that was, I think, incredibly helpful. In fact, if you were to take all that you said seriously in that last episode, it would completely change your outlook as you consider and interpret what’s going on in Israel right now. And so I appreciate what you did in that last episode. Now we want to answer some practical questions—questions we’ve received from some of our members and other folks who are Christians who have questions about Israel, and how we should think about this situation as Christians. So, Cliff, again, I want to hand it right over to you and let you kick it off.
Cliff: Yeah, the first question—I’ve actually received this a couple of times, maybe more than that just in the last seven days. And that is where as a Christian, can I get good resources—reliable answers to the ongoing conflict and the current battle that’s going on? There’s a lot of good resources, there’s websites, but I just want to mention three books that have been very helpful for me and they’re all recent. The first one is Reclaiming Israel’s History by David Brog. This has actually been one of the most helpful, readable books to me. If the guy, I don’t know if he’s a Christian or not, but he’s a great historian, and listen to those who endorsed it on the back. You’ve got Dennis Prager, who—he’s not a Christian, he’s a Jew—but he knows the Jewish religion. You’ve got a Christian pastor who’s well known and endorsed it as well. And then Glenn Beck, who I think is a Mormon. Anyway, so you’ve got Christian, Mormon, Jew, but they all endorsed it because it’s just great history. Reclaiming Israel’s History. Good, easy read in terms of [the fact that] he’s a very good writer who makes a complicated subject understandable.
Derek: I like those kinds of books.
Cliff: Yep. Now this one is a Christian book. This is called What Should We Think About Israel? What a great title. What Should We Think About Israel? by many Christian authors. And the general editor is Jay Randall Price, also known as Randy Price. It’s his other name. President of the World of the Bible Ministries. He is an expert on Israel. He used to live in Israel, actually, and he’s done tours—probably over a hundred tours to Israel. He’s probably in his seventies by now. But he’s had a ministry regarding ministry to the Jews and Israel for about fifty years. Very reliable, great scholar, adjunct professor at Liberty University and other Christian institutions as well. So you’re going to find some great articles in here by a lot of the best of Christian scholars on Israel in the world today. So that’s good stuff. Very practical. What should we think about Israel? And then another recent one that came out, edited by Larry Pettegrew. And you remember Dr. Doug Bookman from The Master’s College?
Derek: I do. His sermons are famous.
Cliff: Yes, they are.
Derek: His chapel sermons are famous.
Cliff: So he’s got a chapter in this next book—it’s called Forsaking Israel—and Bookman’s got an article in there. Just some great Christian scholars who are experts on Israel. And Larry Pettigrew has an article in there and he’s the editor of the book. He was the former president of Shepherd Seminary in North Carolina, but he was also New Testament professor at the Master’s Seminary for over a decade. Great man of God. So Forsaking Israel—get that one.
Derek: I know I’ve already mentioned it and I know you wouldn’t say it because you don’t promote yourself in this way, but your book, What the Bible Says About Israel: Past, Present, and Future has got great endorsements, got great reviews, and is a very, very helpful book that would help you in similar ways that those books would, I trust, help Christians think rightly about Israel. And so we have that book available on our website. You can even get a free PDF copy on our website.
Cliff: That is awesome. Thanks, Derek. I researched that book specifically for about two years and wrote it and there’s a chapter in there called “Who Are the Palestinians?”, and I hadn’t read it in a couple of years, so I read it last week again. I had to read that chapter again. It was good. I forgot everything I said and all the research I did. It’s like, wow, did I write this? Anyway, but I was dependent upon other experts who were very helpful. Another one that we’ve published, Derek, is the one called Islam: Friend or Foe. You can find that on Amazon, not under my name, just the title Islam: Friend or Foe. It’s helpful because, again, it’s pertinent to what’s going on right now because it’s a Muslim-Israeli conflict, not an Arab-Israeli conflict. And I have a section in there on the prophecy of Gog and Magog in Ezekiel 38 and 39, which is relevant here.
Derek: With regard to books on Islam, I think it’s imperative for Christians now to—I don’t think Christians can remain in willful ignorance on Islam any longer. That’s just not an option. You need to know about it. You need to know the basic tenets. You need to know what is in the Quran, who Muhammad was, the way Islam views the world, and these kinds of things. So it is just no longer a luxury that Christians can indulge in anymore to ignore Islam. You have to understand it, and that’s a great resource to do that. And we encourage our listeners to, in fact, we’ll probably eventually have to do a podcast or two or several on the religion of Islam to help our listeners. I know you’ve taught on Islam quite a bit in the past and Christians need to equip themselves with some working knowledge of Islam.
Cliff: Yep, absolutely. Alright, let’s do some Q & A. Derek, I wrote down a bunch of questions that I have received from folks in the last seven days and a few other occasions. This is probably the number one question I’ve received this week. Derek, I’m going to throw it at you because you’re a pastor. This was one of those spontaneous questions: Pastor Cliff, are we at the end of the age? and then coupled with, because this is similar, are we in the tribulation? I literally got a phone call Saturday morning when this happened with this question. Pastor Derek, are we at the end of the age? Are these the latter days and are we in the great tribulation?
Derek: Well, I would say that since Christ has come back, I’m sorry, since Christ has come and died and raised and ascended, that the New Testament outlook is that we are in the latter days. So we’re always in the latter days since Christ is ascended and now we’re waiting for his return. And so in that sense, we’re always in the latter days and in this kind of situation, there have been situations that have been similar to this in terms of scale or location over in the Middle East and involving Israel and even things that don’t directly involve Israel, like world wars and things like that, that tempt people to think like, oh, this must be it. Because this is so big and so destructive and so disastrous that this must be the end times. And so I think we just need to keep perspective that Jesus says there will be, until a second coming, there’ll be wars and rumors of wars and these things will increase. And even during the time before the end they’ll ebb and they’ll flow. And so we have to keep that perspective. I also want to say that with regard to what the scripture teaches about the tribulation, I tend to think that when we are in the tribulation, no one will be asking, is this a tribulation? I tend to think that it will be like Jesus said. It will be a tribulation like has never been experienced before.
Cliff: Yes, I totally agree, Derek. It’d be like, so Derek, did you see that 150 pound hailstone that came down and smashed my car this morning?
Derek: Exactly.
Cliff: Did you have those hailstones in your neighborhood?
Derek: And I would say, yes I did. So I think that question indicates, in fact, we’re not in the tribulation.
Cliff: But that’s just a human tendency. Martin Luther did that. He thought he was at the very end of the age and that the Pope was the final anti-Christ. Apparently, it was called the Luther Revelation Bible.
Derek: And quite honestly, if I would’ve been Luther at the time, I probably would’ve believed that same thing. I totally understand why he did.
Cliff: I know when I became a Christian, I thought that I was all excited about Jesus’ coming in the end of the age. The first time I read the book of Revelation, oh, this is it, baby. You look at every bad thing in the news and you associate it with the tribulation. I agree with you. So the simple answer is, are we in the tribulation? No, we are not in the great tribulation, which is separate from personal tribulation for believing in Jesus. We’re talking about the eschatological great tribulation prophesied in scripture. So we are not in that. And I also agree with you, Derek, that we are in the latter days. I think everything after the ascension of Jesus basically constitutes the latter days—that’s what the Bible says. These are the latter days. And basically what that means is there’s nothing major really that—I mean, the greatest event in world history has happened and that is the death and resurrection of the Messiah that all of the Old Testament was looking up to. Hence, now it’s just latter days until he comes again.
Derek: That’s right.
Cliff: Okay, next one. How should—we alluded at this a little bit—but how should Christians interpret these immediate events?
Derek: Well, particularly with Israel, I think you’ve set the stage really well in the previous episode by saying that we interpret these present events with Israel as a spiritual, religious war between Islam or Muslims and the Jews. And so that’s one approach, one way to interpret it.
Cliff: Can I stop you there, Derek? I think that’s actually really important because you’re saying as a Christian distinctively we should be interpreting the events with Israel and Hamas as a spiritual reality versus probably now what is being promoted in the news as a primarily political issue.
Derek: Exactly, exactly.
Cliff: And so can you elaborate a little more on that? How do I think about it as a spiritual event versus political?
Derek: Yeah, so understanding Israel’s history as the people of God. I mean you could even go back to, you have to go back to Genesis three. Even when you find in Genesis three that God creates people, Adam and Eve, and the first thing that happens is they are attacked by God’s enemy, Satan. And Satan has always been attacking God’s people. And so from that point on, and with Israel as a nation and Israel, now, Satan has always had an active hatred for God’s people. And just because Israel’s not presently believing in their Messiah does not mean that they’re not still God’s people in an important sense. In fact, you’ve mentioned it in the last episode, there will be a large, massive group of Jews who will come to Christ and trust in their Messiah in the future. But the point is that Israel as God’s people is targeted by Satan with hatred and with anger.
You see this here even in Revelation 12, where it talks about the dragon wanting to devour the woman who gives birth to the Messiah. And that is an indication that Satan is always after Israel to devour, to destroy them presently right now. It’s not just one religion versus another. It’s actually Satan using whatever forces he can to bring about the annihilation of God’s people because he hates God’s people. And so I think you have to trace it all the way through scripture and even locate it at the very beginning in Genesis three and trace it out all the way to Revelation and then today to recognize that this is spurred by Satan’s hatred for God’s people.
Cliff: Yeah, I think that’s where spiritual interpretation starts, is understanding that Satan is real. He’s behind this, he’s orchestrating things. He’s the ongoing nemesis of God. Starting in Genesis chapter three, you mentioned from Genesis to Revelation, literally Revelation chapter 12. I call Revelation chapter 12 the history of Satan because it actually does a chronological summary of some of the most specific events of Satan, from the Garden of Eden all the way to the end of the age. And the point of emphasis there is that he hates God’s people and specifically since the time of Jesus, he hates the Jews. So Satan hates Israel in addition to, I’m going to piggyback on spiritual interpretation here, Derek, of what’s going on here with people attacking Israel. Not only has Satan always hated Israel as God’s people, but humans and different races and nations of people have hated Israel.
But in Leviticus 26, this is a key chapter for Christians if they want to do a little more for their study. In 1400 BC or 1440, God gives Moses the law. 613 laws and the 10 Commandments, the constitution of the nation of Israel before they go into the land. I’m going to give you the land. I own the land, but I’m going to give it to you. You’ll possess it. I’m going to bless you, I’m going to give you all these things, but the temporal blessing was conditional upon their obedience. So if you obey me, I’ll bless you in these different ways. So that’s Leviticus 26. If you obey me, I’m going to do all these wonderful things for you. Then God says, if you disobey me, Leviticus 26:14, if you do not obey me, verse 21, if you are not willing to obey me once you get into the promised land, verse 23, if you turn from me, verse 27, if you do not obey me when you get into the promised land of Leviticus 26, I’m going to do the following to you. I’m going to chastise you, I’m going to punish you. I’m going to bring wrath and hostility against you. Verse 28: I’ll act with hostility against you, my precious people. Verse 24: God’s going to judge his own people. And the culmination of God’s chastising judgment against Israel after he brings them into the land of promise is verse 33 of Leviticus 26 when he says, you, however, you Jews, I will scatter you among the nations. I will scatter you among the nations. He reiterates this in Deuteronomy chapter four and a couple of other places. I will scatter you among the nations. I will sprinkle you all over. I will remove you from the land and there will always be Jews in the land, but your people will be all over and you’ll always be a minority wherever you are in the world, and you’ll be hated by the nations with which you reside. You would be despised by them. This is punishment from God. And so that’s what we’re seeing today. We have Jews in just about every one of the 194 nations in the world today. If they are in some of those nations like Iran, they’re probably in hiding, but they’re probably there. And God said that I will scatter you among the nations and you’ll be despised by all those people of the world.
Derek: Yeah, that promise has been fulfilled. That is evidence, you could say, of the truthfulness and the reliability of the Bible right there.
Cliff: And then in Deuteronomy four, 40 years later, God said, I’m going to scatter you all over the world. And then Deuteronomy four literally says, God says, but in the latter days, if you obey, if you repent, I will bring you back. In Leviticus 26, God says the same thing. If you confess, if you repent, I will remember my covenant with Jacob and Abraham and I will bring you back from the four corners of the earth. So God isn’t done with Israel yet, but just both in Leviticus 26 and Deuteronomy four and a couple other places, God warned him and said, you know what? If you don’t obey, I’m going to chastise you. And part of that is the nations of the world are going to hate you. And then Jesus came to his own and those who received him not, according to John 1:11, for the most part, he was supposed to be a savior of the Jews as well as the world. But he came to his own and the Jews collectively rejected him, except for a few. And even on the day that he entered at the triumphal entry, all the Jews were praising him with palm branches, basically calling him King. We welcome you. And then what? Five days later, they’re screaming for his blood as they are shouting for his blood saying, crucify him. And we have no king but Caesar. And then the Jews literally said, may his blood be on us and on our children, may God’s blood be on our descendants. And that’s basically what’s been happening for the last 2000 years. Okay, let’s see. Another question I got. Oh, we answered that one. And that was why does everyone seem to hate the Jews? And I think Satan inspires this whole thing and then because of God’s chastisement, Derek, we alluded to this a little bit in the last program, but do you think, will there be peace in the Middle East anytime soon? What do you think on that one?
Derek: No, there can be temporary peace. We’ve seen in some of these accords. There can be a little temporary peace, but you even characterize this peace as just a time of respiratory loading of the weapons and no, it can’t be. There can’t be peace between these because, like we’ve mentioned, this is a spiritual battle. And so there won’t be peace. Peace in the Middle East, it can’t ultimately happen.
Cliff: Seems pessimistic. You seem like a downer by saying that. That’s very pessimistic and negative.
Derek: Well, I think what it’s meant to do, though, is point people towards the only person who can bring about true peace in the Middle East, and that’s Jesus. And he will enact final, true peace. He’s going to do some serious judgment and then he’ll enact true and abiding peace. But to say something like, no, there cannot be peace in the Middle East and there will not, is not meant to be merely a downer, but to point us to Jesus Christ, the only one who can bring it about.
Cliff: I was being facetious. But I think you’re being realistic by saying that you’re just giving the truth, because that’s what the Bible clearly says. As a matter of fact, we shouldn’t be doing the opposite like the Utopians who are falsely making promises and saying that they can broker peace in the Middle East, giving people a false hope, which Jeremiah condemns. When false teachers go around and say peace, peace when there is no peace, we shouldn’t be doing that. We need to be realistic with people and the truth. So I agree with you. I don’t see peace happening anytime soon until God makes it happen. And that’s at the end of the age with the coming of Jesus, the Messiah. Derek, is this attack because Israel has been disobedient? As a matter of fact, some Christians held the position that. Well, it was the Jews that crucified the Messiah, therefore, they deserve the wrath of God any way that it comes. It’s deserved on Israelis and Jews. So is this most recent attack on Israel justified? Did they deserve it?
Derek: So this needs crystal clarity, this question. I think, because what you just said, it’s not as though that is an uncommon viewpoint. I just saw again on Twitter today, or yesterday rather, a Christian saying that very thing. They quoted the place where in the gospels the Jews are yelling, crucify him and they said that Israel’s bloodshed is worse than Hamas and therefore no pity on Israel. They’re getting what they deserve. And I was stunned. I was stunned because of the lack of theological clarity and even just biblical clarity at this point. God, as you’ve already pointed out, promised Israel that he would chastise them for their disobedience and he has done that and he is going to continue to do that. However, if you turn to Isaiah 10 as an example, I think this really makes this clear. You turn to Isaiah 10, God is going to use Assyria to discipline his people.
They’ve been disobedient. They need to be judged, they need to be disciplined. And so he’s going to bring in this foreign nation to do that. And the text says that this foreign nation, they’re not receiving a revelation from God going, okay, let’s go in and attack Israel in order to discipline them for Yahweh’s sake. They’re just a nation that is proud and arrogant and want to go kill people and take over people. That’s what they want to do. And so that’s what they’re thinking. Here’s Israel, we’re going to go take them out. We’re going to go plunder them. It’s going to be a great time. And in God’s providence and his sovereignty, he’s actually using that nation to discipline his people. And then he turns around and he says, and I will judge Assyria because they acted wickedly and proud. And so in a situation like this, we are able to say, yes, Israel, you have to say both things. Israel is under God’s judgment. We know that biblically, and you can say at the same time, and this act by Hamas was absolutely wicked, uncalled for and evil. And that’s what God does in scripture. And you have to be careful that you’re not trying to act as God by trying to interpret things for God and how he is carrying out his justice.
Cliff: Yeah, that’s a great point. God is the one who chastises his precious people in Israel. We don’t.
Derek: We don’t. That’s right.
Cliff: Israel is still God’s elect. They’re his precious possession. That’s what it said. He’s the God of Israel. That’s his name in the Old Testament and that will never change. Great answer on that one. That’s really helpful. I want to address this one. This was a specific question I got about, well, what about Ezekiel 38 and 39? Apparently there are Christians out there making videos on YouTube and podcasts saying that what’s happening right now is the fulfillment of Ezekiel 38 and 39, which is a prophecy about the end of the age. Most commentators actually do believe that Ezekiel 38 and 39 is a specific prophecy about the end of the age. So that is true and I believe it is. Here’s a popular prophecy in the evangelical community that’s been around for decades, probably since Hal Lindsay in the 1970s. Derek, let me run it by you. I’ll just read the verse. Ezekiel 38, verse one. And the word of the Lord came to Ezekiel saying, son of man, Ezekiel, set your face towards Gog—whatever Gog is, if it’s a man or an area or region—set your face towards Gog of the land of Magog. Most people think it’s some guy, a man who lives in the land of Magog, which is probably Asia Minor. Set your face towards Gog in the land of Magog, the Prince of Rosh, Meshech, and Tubal. Now some people, and I don’t know if it was Hal Lindsay, but people like that said that Rosh is a country that Ezekiel’s referring to. And it’s a prophecy of Ezekiel who’s speaking in like 550-600 BC. This is a prophecy of Russia because Rosh sounds, in English, like Russia.
So this is obviously Russia, the prince of Russia, and then Meshech, in your English Bible, they say that sounds like Moscow. And then Tubal, T-U-B-A-L—that sounds like Bosch, which is a city in Russia, literally. I’ve been familiar with this view that started in the 1970s and it’s been prominent in the evangelical community and those who put a lot of emphasis on end times prophecy. And so they say that definitely this is a prophecy that at the end of the age Russia is going to be involved, which would mean Putin and it’s going to be headquartered in Moscow and then another Russian city there in Siberia. And so therefore, since all this stuff that’s going on with Putin and Russia and Ukraine and now Israel and the Palestinians and Putin hates the Jews, too. Is this evidence, Derek, that this prophecy is being fulfilled with Russia? Your thoughts on that?
Derek: Just on the face of it? I think that’s stretching a little bit, to come to those conclusions.
Cliff: I think it’s completely absurd. I comment on it because if you do bibliology, with that is hermeneutics. So just to comment on this idea of doing hermeneutics that way in an English Bible, and then you connect Rosh with the English version of Russia. Can we do that with the Bible?
Derek: No, no. You have to understand the words in their original context, in their original language.
Cliff: Not the English Bible, which actually comes from the King James, and is a completely illegitimate hermeneutic. We do not interpret the Bible this way. This is completely artificial, manufactured, and manipulated. It’s very popular, though, and resonates with the populace and people get excited. Oh wow, we’re seeing it right before our eyes! Look what Putin’s doing, and it’s right here in Ezekiel 38! And then they write a book and people buy it and they get all uptight. What I’ve found is that Christians get unsettled and uncomfortable and scared and fearful because of somebody’s bad, manipulative acts in trying to sell a book or whatever they’re doing. So to answer your question, what about Ezekiel 38 and 39? I don’t think we’re in Ezekiel 38 and 39. Clearly in the context, if you read it on that day, verse 10 on that day, verse 14 and verse 18, it will come about on that day and then actually God’s going to be present.
I myself think in verse 23, this is clearly referring to an event at the end of the age. And then when you look up commentators of our persuasion who are pre-mil evangelicals, they don’t even agree when it’s going to happen. There are three options. This is going to happen during the tribulation at the end of the age. This is going to happen at the second coming before the millennium. And then another guy says, no, this is going to happen at the end of the millennium. And those are all three good evangelical scholars. The point being that Jesus was right. You don’t know the day or the hour. So quit fighting over the timing. Only God knows that. Okay. So those were the main questions that I had, Derek, that hopefully help the listeners out there.
Derek: Yeah, and that’s good. Those are practical, helpful questions.
Cliff: One more. I’ll throw it at you. Is this a 50-50 prospect of what’s happening with Israel and Hamas? They’re both equally responsible, kind of like the Pope insinuated last week, where it’s like just stop fighting. War is no good for anybody. In other words, Israel, you don’t need to retaliate. And he was basically saying there’s a moral equivalence here.
Derek: I think hopefully the fruit of that first episode and even what we’ve said in this episode is to shift people’s understanding to be more historically and biblically aligned with what is really happening in Israel right now, and the history of Palestine and the history of Israel, to see that what has been portrayed in the media of late is not the way it actually is. Namely calling Israel occupiers, for example, or suggesting that Israel became a nation in 1948. Because that gives the impression that, in fact, Israel doesn’t belong there and this is not their land. And any kind of action that they take against Palestinians or Hamas is an act of aggression. And if you rightly understand the history of these things, then I think you’re going to have a different viewpoint. So I would say no, we can’t see this as a 50-50, particularly this situation that just happened, because this was not at all in any way, shape or form an act of retaliation by Hamas. This was a calculated terrorist attack of the worst kind. And you can see that in the way they conducted it. But that assumes also that there is not a moral equivalency when it comes to who should be in the land. We’ve already seen from scripture that Israel belongs there because the land is a gift from their Creator—from our Creator. So no, we can’t see this as a 50-50. We don’t want to pick sides. No, you do need to pick sides and have moral clarity on this issue. And I think the right direction is clearly with Israel and with this particular event, it’s with Israel.
Cliff: Yeah, I agree. And again, I’m just going to end from my point of view of what I started with, and I think we’re able to talk about this with some level of confidence and clarity because of the Bible.
Derek: That’s right.
Cliff: That’s what gives us the clarity.
Derek: And I appreciate you being able to take us through so much of this because I do understand why people lack clarity. You would lack clarity if you’re not starting from biblical presuppositions. And so hopefully this will be helpful and hopefully some of this clarity can spread. I think, too, I want to end with this. We’ve talked about this before, Cliff, and I just want to re-emphasize it. We’ve talked about, as Christians, we’ve experienced in our own lives just a natural affection for the Jews and for Israel. I can’t explain it except to say that when I became a Christian, I went to the Bible college, I started studying the Old Testament and just immediately Israel and the Jews became an object of my affection because this was my history. These are my people. My Messiah, my Savior is Jewish; he came out of Israel.
We have been grafted in. And so what I want to encourage our listeners is to really consider the place that Israel has in redemptive history, the place that Israel has in God’s own heart, the promises that he’s made and the promises he plans to keep with Israel. And consider your own Savior who is a Jewish man—God in the flesh, but nevertheless a Jewish man. And recognize what scripture says about Israel specifically. For example, Psalm 122: 6 says, pray for the peace of Jerusalem. May they be secure who love you. Psalm 135:4 says, for the Lord has chosen Jacob for himself and Israel as his own possession. Psalm 128:6 says, peace be upon Israel. And so Christians should have a love for Israel, a love for the Jew, and therefore you can’t be indifferent towards this conflict and just kind of shut it off and not want to think about it. No, this is something that should actually provoke in you grief, sadness, and anger even, and to have you pray for Israel and the Jews. And I think the Bible actually promises blessing upon those who have a genuine concern for and work for the peace of Israel and the good of Israel. I think the Bible promises blessing.
Cliff: Amen. I believe that Genesis 12:3 is still in effect, when God said, I’ll bless those who bless you and curse those who curse you.
Derek: So we want you to consider those things and hopefully grow in your own love for the Jews and God’s people in Israel, and continue to pray for them and to look forward to their gathering. That’s going to be sweet. And to remember, too, that you were grafted in as a Gentile. And so that should humble us. In fact, that’s what Paul says. That should keep you humble. And so we hope this has been helpful. If you haven’t already, listen to the first episode on this topic, to give you some background. And we trust this has been helpful, and we encourage you to check out withallwisdom.org. And until next time, keep seeking the Lord and his Word.
